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Hargrave Fractional via Monocle

Discussion in ' Hargrave Yacht ' started by dan1000 , Jul 22, 2011 .

dan1000

dan1000 Member

I am looking very seriously at buying a portion of a 2009 Hargrave 100' raised pilothouse yacht called "Perfect Harmony" that is being managed by Monocle Fractional Yachts. I'd be interested to hear from anyone with insights about this boat, about Hargrave or Monocle, or about fractional yacht ownership in general. My situation is that my family of 4 has just finished a fantastic season aboard our Sea Spirit Passagemaker 60 trawler (which appears in a review somewhere here on YachtForums). But our aspirations have changed completely since we bought that boat. Originally, we wanted to spend a lot of time at sea, being very independent, and exploring for several months at a time. But having done a little of that, we now recognize that we enjoy exploring a chain of islands such as the Exumas for a few weeks, and then returning to land-locked life. We also found that (unlike many!) we greatly enjoy having family and friends aboard, and found that we needed a little more room than Sea Spirit provided us with. So, with intended usage of 6 - 8 weeks per year, fractional seems to make sense for us, but I'm keenly interested in what you folks have to say about the choices I've listed above (Hargrave/Monocle). I've looked in the "Hargrave" section here on YachtForums, but haven't quite found the insights I'm seeking. Thanks in advance Dan

Capt J

Capt J Senior Member

I manage a yacht for an owner that also has a partnership in one of the Monacle 100' Hargraves and he is very happy with it. Aside from the entrance price, it costs him around $40k a year maintanence for his 4 weeks a year. , 2 weeks and 2 weeks and the boat runs a crew of 4. The downside is that his 2 sets of 2 weeks are on the same weeks every year. Although some of the partners trade their weeks around to a small degree. Other downside according to him is that the boat is in 2 different places. Northeast for the summer and Carribbean for the winter. 6 months at each place which can be a little too early or a little too late for the proper weather. He feels it would be better if the weeks were split into 3- 10 day blocks and the boat was in 3 different places to better suit the weather or seasons. That being said he thoroughly enjoys it. Also, his 50-60' yacht here in Florida costs him as much to maintain a year and he uses it about the same amount of time and feels it's not worth it to own the 50-60' for the amount of usage he gets with it.
Oh, and the crew is run completely ragged and has a high turnover. They have 40 weeks of guest on-board in 2 week blocks, 3 days of turnover between guests another 60 days or 9 weeks of turnover......so that's 49 weeks, a 2 week yard period......so essentially the crew is working 51 weeks non stop out of 52 weeks. But, if the schedule fits your schedule than it's a good deal for you at $40k maintanence a year for 4 weeks of usage.

NYCAP123

NYCAP123 Senior Member

Other downside according to him is that the boat is in 2 different places. Click to expand...
NYCAP123 said: That needs to be a primary concern when choosing a boat, probably even more important than the boat itself. Are the locations suitable to you? Another really big downside. Should the person who gets x-mas/New Years and Easter pay the same as the guy who gets say late October? Some companies have this figured out pretty well, while others don't seem to want to do the extra work. One way is to sell shares (days) instead of weeks and giving first choice to the largest share holder, etc. Another would be to hold a lottery for prime times such as holidays. This is basically a Timeshare, except that Timeshares often have mechanisms in place for people to use their times at different locations. Despite this many timeshare still go unused after a few years. So the devil really is in the details with fractional ownership agreements. Click to expand...
Capt J said: Well, on the other hand you know what weeks you get when you buy into it, so you know. Click to expand...
Thanks for the responses so far. I had not considered the crew burnout aspects. Yes, the boats run 40 weeks per year, and are "off" the remaining 12 weeks, but it's 3 or 4 days between each owner-changeover rather than one 12 week chunk off. We are looking at 6 weeks that would be blocked together for us in the Spring, which is our preference (we home-school our kids, so have a lot of flexibility here). 6 weeks is plenty for us, but I can see how anyone looking to be aboard for much more than about 10 weeks would be better off with outright ownership. I also agree that the choice of cruising grounds is important, and is decided a year in advance by some sort of super-majority vote of the owners. My understanding is that the Hargraves are well built. Has anyone heard anything to the contrary? Similarly, any comments specifically about Monocle? Once again, thanks very much for sharing your experiences and thoughts with me. Previously I have found YF to be an invaluable source of insight, although I recognize that what one receives when one asks for opinions and anecdotes is "input", not "answers". Dan
dan1000 said: Thanks for the responses so far. I had not considered the crew burnout aspects. Yes, the boats run 40 weeks per year, and are "off" the remaining 12 weeks, but it's 3 or 4 days between each owner-changeover rather than one 12 week chunk off. We are looking at 6 weeks that would be blocked together for us in the Spring, which is our preference (we home-school our kids, so have a lot of flexibility here). 6 weeks is plenty for us, but I can see how anyone looking to be aboard for much more than about 10 weeks would be better off with outright ownership. I also agree that the choice of cruising grounds is important, and is decided a year in advance by some sort of super-majority vote of the owners. My understanding is that the Hargraves are well built. Has anyone heard anything to the contrary? Similarly, any comments specifically about Monocle? Once again, thanks very much for sharing your experiences and thoughts with me. Previously I have found YF to be an invaluable source of insight, although I recognize that what one receives when one asks for opinions and anecdotes is "input", not "answers". Dan Click to expand...
Capt J said: One thing all of the owners and you are failing to realize, is that it takes 3 days of work to Turn that boat around, clean the exterior, the interior, linens, provision, maintanence before the next group. So, the crew doesn't get any time off in between guests. Think about it, a washdown takes an entire day, then you have a day of cleaning the tender, cushions, polishing stainless, etc etc etc........just for the mate......then the stewardess has an entire day doing laundry and putting the stuff back on the beds, etc..... a day or two cleaning the interior etc......... The only way I could see this deal work well for everyone and the crew is either 8 owners max, and 32 weeks of usage max (which is still a lot), OR have 2 identical boats, and 3 complete full time crews and rotate each set of crew for 2 weeks off every month.........It seems to be working on the 1 boat I know of, BUT they go through stewardesses and mates every 2 months......OHHH and the owners are encouraged to NOT tip them.......so why wouldn't they just go to a busy charterboat making more money and less work....... Click to expand...
NYCAP123 said: Of course a well run operation could have a dock crew that hits the boat when it arrives washing the outside and interior in a few hours, leaving the crew to do the prep work at an unstressed pace. That could easily cut that 3 day layup down to 1, and save them from replacing and retraining crew every few months (not to say it's the way most do it). Personally, if I were laying out that kind of money, I'd like a boat where I'd have the same crew each time, and I'd hate to be out with a crew who has burned out and is planning to leave soon. Click to expand...
Your point is very well taken. I suppose it comes down to this: I need to find out if, as you say, the crew come and go with the wind due to poor working conditions and sub-par pay (which is what you are inferring), or alternatively they have a system in place that satisfies and retains crew without burning them out (which is what I have been told). If it is indeed the latter, I need to better understand how the crew's needs and expectations are met. About the tipping: My understanding is that the crew receives a fairly generous annual bonus from the owners (via Monocle). It's not a tip, but it's real money just the same. Capt J: While I would certainly ask the questions differently from the way you have posed them, they are the right questions, and I thank you for raising their importance in my mind. Dan Capt J said: One thing all of the owners and you are failing to realize, is that it takes 3 days of work to Turn that boat around, clean the exterior, the interior, linens, provision, maintanence before the next group. So, the crew doesn't get any time off in between guests. Think about it, a washdown takes an entire day, then you have a day of cleaning the tender, cushions, polishing stainless, etc etc etc........just for the mate......then the stewardess has an entire day doing laundry and putting the stuff back on the beds, etc..... a day or two cleaning the interior etc......... ........the owners are encouraged to NOT tip them.......so why wouldn't they just go to a busy charterboat making more money and less work....... Click to expand...
For sure. I think Capt J's concerns have merit in theory, but I need to speak to some happy or unhappy actual owners or crew in order to know the truth in practice. NYCAP123 said: Personally, if I were laying out that kind of money, I'd like a boat where I'd have the same crew each time, and I'd hate to be out with a crew who has burned out and is planning to leave soon. Click to expand...
Also, FWIW, the fraction we're looking at is 6 straight weeks, all at one time, not split up. The downside for the crew is they have to put up with us for 6 weeks. The upside is that they presumably could then get 3 x the usual number of between-owner days at the beginning or end of our stay. I'm not sure what the "typical" fraction is. I know they sell 10% fractions and allow people to add on as many 5% fractions as they want. If everyone does like me and takes 15% in one big lump, it significantly changes the equation in terms of allowing more down-days in between owners.
dan1000 said: Also, FWIW, the fraction we're looking at is 6 straight weeks, all at one time, not split up. The downside for the crew is they have to put up with us for 6 weeks. The upside is that they presumably could then get 3 x the usual number of between-owner days at the beginning or end of our stay. I'm not sure what the "typical" fraction is. I know they sell 10% fractions and allow people to add on as many 5% fractions as they want. If everyone does like me and takes 15% in one big lump, it significantly changes the equation in terms of allowing more down-days in between owners. Click to expand...

K1W1

K1W1 Senior Member

Capt J said: I manage a yacht for an owner that also has a partnership in one of the Monacle 100' Hargraves and he is very happy with it. Click to expand...
I can talk to the owner that has a partnership in a Monacle Hargrave. He's a super nice guy and probably wouldn't mind talking to you about it. He has no problems using the same weeks each year. He is very happy with the situation and it meets all of his expectations. He is partners on a different Hargrave than the one you're looking into......The Captain and another crewmember have been on the boat a long time. Most owners wouldn't even notice that the other crew turns over a lot because they're only on the boat every 6 months......He's had the partnership for a couple of years and like I said....it only costs him $40,000 a year for his 4 weeks and I think that even includes when he's on it....... The other question I have, is what happens as the boat gets old.......I'm guessing your share price would go down with the value of the boat just like depreciation on a yacht........ If you had 2 boats with 3 sets of crew, you could even rotate them and keep them on the same weeks with the same owners, so the owners in reality wouldn't even know there's another set of crew unless they swapped weeks with another owner...... He's actually interested in going partners in a late model 70-80' MY that is kept here in South Florida and travels maybe NE, Bahamas, etc.....his needs are 4 staterooms, full beam master, nice crew quarters.......
Mmm. Another good question. But no, that's not how it works at all. The "down-days" are pooled to the "ends" of the block. They are not turned into extra owner-use days. Also, I asked whether Monocle puts the boat into charter during any non-owner time. The answer is no. Down time is down time. However, owners can choose to charter their fractions instead of using them, though apparently it happens only very rarely. As for care and maintenance of the crew during a 6 week block, I think this will be either easy or difficult depending on the people involved. For us, we're used to giving crew a lot of off-time while we're on the boat -- sometimes sending the crew home for a few days, other times just "local" days off without duties. But we may be unusual in this regard, and perhaps other owners wouldn't feel the same way. Dan NYCAP123 said: That means 6 straight weeks with nary a day off for the crew unless you provide for it. I doubt the employer would see it as an opportunity to give the crew a vacation afterwards. They'll have the boat back out making money as soon as it can be cleaned up and reprovisioned. Is there an opportunity to charter the boat on a trial basis? That would give you a chance to talk with the crew and get a feel for the experience. Click to expand...
PM has been sent today. -- Thanks. K1W1 said: Hi, Maybe the two of you can have a chat and see if it is possible to meet or at least communicate directly with the Owner CaptJ is working for. Click to expand...

aviator4512

aviator4512 Member

My parents and I spent some time with Loren Simkowicz, Monocle founder and President, at FLIBS last year and the whole operation seems very sound. Loren maintains a great relationship with the Hargrave team, which he capitalizes on by purchasing several boats from them at a discounted price. Loren believes that by bringing together like-minded individuals who want an effortless yachting experience for only a couple of weeks a year (Generally 4 weeks) - that he can pass on the savings as opposed to owning the vessel outright. There are no headaches, but as mentioned before there are some drawbacks. Obviously location and crew could be potential issues although Loren assured us that locations change each year by popular vote amongst the owners. One of the drawbacks that we discussed is the fact that these Hargraves are very "plain jane" and are almost identical to each other one in Monocles fleet. Now if the Hargraves aren't your cup of tea, Monocle has had some success selling shares on all types and sizes of vessels for owners all over the world. Overall - Loren comes from a business background and can provide good information on tax benefits and the like. One interesting thing to note is that two vessels which are in Monocle's fleet are on the market: Perfect Harmony 100' and Vitesse 68'. I know they are also planning on brining that new Hargrave 136' to the fractional market and are actively pursuing interested parties. All-in-all, for the value, this business model makes good sense if the right management team is behind it.
This I know for a fact, on the 1 that I am familiar with. You have 20 2week blocks of owner usage....... 3 days turnaround between each 2 week block (60 days or 9 weeks), in my math, that works out to 49 weeks of work for the crew. Then there is a 2 week yard period, so you have 51 weeks of usage out of a 52 week year. The only downtime the crew gets is if an owner does not use his entire 2 week block for whatever reason. The boat also does a lot of anchoring to save money which is difficult on the crew as well. From an owner standpoint it works out very well. Where else can you have 4 weeks use of a 100' fully crewed for around $40k a year in maintanence. You can't charter one for more than a week for that price. The other issue is the boat spends 6 months in 2 locations.....a majority vote can change the locations, but only 2 locations so all owners have their weeks at the same place......... well 6 months is too long for the Carribbean season and part of that is too cold, or too far into Hurricane season.......and the other 6 months is too early and late into the season if they bring the boat to say Martha's vineyard......
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How does Fractional Ownership work? Fractional ownership is a business concept that has been around for decades. It is a method of ownership where several people can own a share in an expensive asset. Investors choose a fractional approach to investment when they do not want to spend the amount of money required to own the entire asset and they do not want all of the risk or hassle that accompanies ownership of the entire asset. Monocle has pioneered the use of fractional ownership applied to a specific class of asset, the luxury yacht. Fractional ownership splits the cost of purchasing the asset and managing the asset across a set of owners.

Because an independent professional handles management, the fractional owners are free to enjoy themselves and be removed from the management responsibilities. Each owner is free to use his/her share of the asset according to the terms of the purchase. Monocle applied the fractional ownership concept to luxury yachts because most yacht owners only use their yacht several weeks a year and the costs to acquire and maintain a yacht are immense. Under the Monocle Program, Fractional ownership is perfect for yacht owners who want the yachting experience with no hassles and no waste of their hard earned capital.

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Omsk: Garrison city on the Irtysh

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All photos by William Brumfield

Omsk, currently a city of around 1 million, was founded in 1716 as a fort on the middle reaches of the Irtysh River.  During the 18th century, its primary purpose was to protect Russia's southern border and establish authority over the aboriginal steppe tribes.

Although administratively subordinate to Tobolsk  throughout the 18th century, Omsk gained increasing power in the 19th century.  From 1808 until 1917, Omsk served as the headquarters of all Siberian Cossack troops, and in 1822 a separate Omsk Province was formed. Shortly thereafter, construction began on the Cossack Church of St. Nicholas (1833-1840), based on a plan by the noted Russian architect Vasily Stasov.  The St. Nicholas Church, which has been splendidly restored, became the repository of one of the area's great relics, the banner of Yermak, cossack conqueror of Siberia

This strong military presence also connected Omsk with the notorious Siberian exile system.  The most famous of the fortress's exiles was the writer Fyodor Dostoevsky, condemned in 1849 for associating with the "radicals" in St. Petersburg.  In January 1850 Dostoevsky arrived under guard at the Omsk fort, and for the better part of three years (1850-54), he lived the harrowing existence of a convict sentenced to hard labor, which included unloading barges on the Irtysh River. When his health broke under the physical and psychological strain, Dostoevsky was hospitalized under the care of a sympathetic medic.  It was during his stay in the infirmary that Dostoevsky began the writing of one of his seminal works, “Notes from the House of the Dead.” A few buildings still survive from that time, including one of the fortress gates, a few warehouses, and the hospital.

During the latter part of the 19th century, Omsk began a period of heady expansion, as the town became a transportation center for Russia’s vast interior. Regular steamboat service along the Irtysh River to Tobolsk began in 1862, but it was the railroads that made Omsk a boomtown. In 1894-95 Omsk was linked by the Trans-Siberian Railroad to Chelyabinsk in the west and Novonikolaevsk (later Novosibirsk ) in the east. In 1913, another rail line was completed from Omsk to Tyumen  in what would become the new Siberian mainline. By the beginning of the 20th century, the population of Omsk had tripled, to over 60,000 inhabitants.

This development as a transportation nexus led to a surge in the city's commercial district.  What had formerly been a provincial garrison town consisting primarily of wooden structures punctuated with several large churches now became a preeminent site for banks, educational institutions, industry and retail trade in Siberia.  In addition to branch offices for major banks and firms in Moscow and St. Petersburg, Omsk received investment from companies in the United States, Germany, and Great Britain.  The central part of Omsk had structures whose design rivaled Moscow's business district. Many of the new commercial buildings were built in styles derived from the Florentine Renaissance.

During the First World War, strategically located Omsk grew still further, and by 1917 the city’s population reached 100,000. Following the October Revolution, Bolshevik power was proclaimed almost immediately; but with little local support, the Bolsheviks were driven from the city in June 1918. Opposition to the Bolsheviks was fatally divided, and in November 1918, a military coup installed a dictatorship headed by Admiral Alexander Kolchak (1874-1920), who was a renowned polar explorer and gifted naval commander, but incapable of dealing with the chaos of the Russian civil war. For almost a year, Omsk could be considered the “capital” of the White forces, and the mansion where Kolchak had his headquarters is a prominent landmark. In November 1919 Kolchak’s forces were driven from Omsk. In 1921 Omsk became one of the centers of the American Relief Agency during the terrible Volga area famine.

With its economy shattered and the countryside still in chaos, Omsk struggled through the 1920s, only to achieve some industrial growth in the 1930s. Like many Siberian cities, it expanded rapidly during the Second World War, both as an evacuation haven and as a center of transportation and production.  Major development of the city’s military-industrial complex continued after the war, and by the end of the 1970s, the city's population exceeded 1,000,000—a benchmark of major significance. Omsk also became a center of the oil and gas industry.

Despite the social dislocation and contradictions of post-Soviet Russia, contemporary Omsk remains an important economic and industrial center.  It has a strong university (opened in 1974) and one of the largest regional libraries in Siberia. The city's expansion has occurred along the Irtysh River, thus creating a stretched plan with large distances between the various districts. Construction began on a subway in 1996, but work has been delayed, and the first line is not scheduled for completion until 2017. Omsk also has an international airport near the city center. The building of a new airport at a safer distance outside the city is proceeding slowly.

Fortunately, the historic center is rebounding, with its early 20th-century commercial district of imposing offices and shops.  There is a lively club scene, as well as a number of large theaters.  Omsk also supports diverse religions.  In addition to reopened Orthodox churches, the city contains a synagogue, mosques (the administration of the Imam of Siberia is in Omsk), and a large Baptist church, to list only a few. The reconstruction of the city’s main Orthodox church, the Cathedral of the Dormition (built in the 1890s and demolished in 1935) was completed in 2007.

Omsk continues to face the challenges of uneven economic development. But with proper investment and management, this Siberian powerhouse is poised to combine new levels of prosperity with a thriving cultural and intellectual life.

All rights reserved by Rossiyskaya Gazeta.

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Pershing 76 | Nadezhda Omsk

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4-cabin motor yacht Pershing 76 - Nadezhda Omsk was built in 2004 (renovated in 2021) and it is docked in Port de Mallorca, Spain.

Nadezhda Omsk can accommodate up to 8 people in 3 double cabins and 1 double cabin with a bunk bed. Pillows and blankets are included in the price.

Motor yacht Nadezhda Omsk offers 4 toilets with a shower .

Boat equipment features radar, generator, salon GPS plotter, BBQ and bimini . It also boasts flat screen TV, heating, air conditioning, audio system and outside speakers . The fully-equipped galley includes an ice maker, freezer, coffee machine, cooker and sink .

This motor yacht is operated by the charter company Independence Yachts.

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  • 1,350 € per day mandatory
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Cancellation / Payment policies

Cancellation and prepayment policies vary according to your selection. Please check the payment conditions when selecting the price above. Check price Check price

Sailing licence required

Pets are not permitted on this boat.

Payment methods accepted by charter company

Information about the marina

Port de Mallorca boasts a wide range of facilities for sailors, including an ATM , WiFi , a launderette , an exchange office , a car park , a petrol station , a toilet and showers .

It also offers a restaurant and a supermarket .

All berths are connected to water and electricity .

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